Billy Ward Lessons?

[Dazzler]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 24, 2005 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Dazzler ]</font>

[matricks]

All good points indeed [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

This is such a cool board [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Love you guys!!! *hugs all around*!!! [img]wink.gif[/img]

[mja61]

A lot of good points. I can't really add to whether or not it's worth it, but here are a few data points. (I'm sure I've posted some of these comments before...)

I've only had two lessons with "name" players. Both in 2001, so feel free to adjust for "inflation" (of dollars, egos, popularity, etc. [img]wink.gif[/img] )

Carl Allen, $75 for one hour, one-on-one. Carl was very direct, almost blunt, with his feedback, but he was totally cool about it. (After all, I was paying him for his advice on how to improve.) I'm still getting value out of the things we talked about. Carl is very intelligent and very knowledgeable about drums and music, and he's got a gift for teaching. A great lesson from a great guy, and I recommend it very highly if you ever get the chance to take a lesson with him.

Virgil Donati, $150 for one hour, one-on-one, plus $50 for a 30-minute master class.

I'm a huge fan of Virgil's, and I've been very inspired to learn his "stuff," but let's just say teaching is not Virgil's strong suit. He was direct, which is cool, but I thought his attitude sucked, so I wasn't too happy about shelling out a buck-and-a-half to someone who was being a pain in the ass. That aside, although Virgil is also very intelligent and knowledgeable about drums and music, he wasn't able to evaluate my playing, nor able to make suggestions about how to improve. (So, being a good player doesn't necessarily make you a good teacher.) Basically, his answer to everything is to spend more time practicing, but could not offer suggestions about what to practice, how to practice, etc. At least SS, Weckl, and others give ideas for exercises, how to expand vocabulary, etc.

The masterclass wasn't much better. We all had practice pad and double pedal setups (which was very nice), but every exercise went the same: we started off slow, he pointed out those of us who were not playing it right, and then increased the tempo until he left us all in the dust (kind of cool to witness, but not a great learning opportunity).

I'm glad I did both, and it was a learning experience (and a much-needed kick in the ass), but I wouldn't take another lesson with him...not because it was a sour experience, but because I just don't think interacting with Virgil is the best way to learn from him. I learn much more by listening to him, and studying videos of him.

My personal opinion is that $100 is out-of-whack for Ward to be charging. I personally don't "get" him at all. His groove is not in "Gadd/Porcaro" territory, and the technique is not in "Virgil/Lang" territory, so I guess I just don't get what the big deal is.

Mangini only charges around $40 for his masterclasses, and I think he charges less than $100 for a one-hour one-on-one.

Sorry for the long rant. I really wanted to straighten out a few people at work today, but thought better of it and bit my tongue. So now I'm taking it out on HOD dammit!!! [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

OK, new rule....decaf only for mja61 after 6 pm [img]wink.gif[/img]

[cjbdrm]

I guess one thing to consider may be that the drum shop/store/host gets a cut of the lesson-which would be a good argument to inflate the price(for him).

I'd be interested in hearing more about the one-on-one lessons with name players...

[Steve Holmes]

Indeed teaching and playing are different abilities and having one doesnt mean you have the other. I've heard plenty of clinics from guys where they play their ass off but then start talking without really saying anything. It can be hard to describe something you play verbally.
What I have a problem with is guys that teach and don't recognize the fact that they can't. It takes communication skills and the ability to determine what specifically the student needs to do in order to get over that hurdle thats preventing them from getting to their musical goal.
I like teaching a lot and would like to do another video maybe. We'll see how well SSL does in Retail. Since I'm basically a no-name I imagine not well at first but knows.

[mja61]

What I have a problem with is guys that teach and don't recognize the fact that they can't.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree totally. I think what gets overlooked is that guys who are charging in excess of $100 for a lesson sometimes forget that they have a responsibility to provide value for that money, just like any other paid professional. Sometimes, it seems to turn into a case of, "Hey, I'm famous drummer Mr. X and you should be happy that you can pay my fee just to hang out with me for an hour." If they can't meet the responsibility, then they shouldn't take the cash.

I like teaching a lot and would like to do another video maybe. We'll see how well SSL does in Retail. Since I'm basically a no-name I imagine not well at first but knows.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Without sounding too gushy, you definitely have the teaching "gift," Steve, as evidenced in your lessons, videos, and written posts on this board. I hope you do another video. (I'm embarassed to say that I still need to get the first one. [img]redface.gif[/img] )

So, what's the deal with the videos? Are they going to be available on DVD? How do we get SSL and the Altered vids these days?

[CLWarunki]

Steve hit the nail on the head when it comes to players and teachers... huge difference and some are both... BUT NOT MANY! A phenominal drummer who is also a phenominal teacher is rare...

What it comes down to is $100 is not that much for a one-on-one with a "superstar drummer"... what is the worst that can happen? You don't learn anything? Well then you still came away knowing something that you didn't know before... get it? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Despite what I pessimistically said before - TAKE THE LESSON! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[jonthibault]

Leonardface wrote: "So I think $100.00 is a bargain indeed to take an hour out of the life of one of the great drummers of our era."

Billy Ward is not a great drummer of our era. He's got a great groove and some good ideas about keeping time ("wiggle a lot," to quote his video), but that's about it. You don't seem to realize that MOST professional drummers have a great groove and have good ideas about keeping time.

His technique is ghastly--his double strokes on his video are sloppy, at best. And his drums, in my opinion, sound like a big bag of ass.

If you like his playing, however, then the $100 might be worth it. You'll be inspired and you'll get to hang out with one of your heros, and you can't really put a price on that.

[FuseU1]

Great post Dazz [what I was basically trying to say, only you did it betta' [img]wink.gif[/img] ]
...mja, AW. [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img]

I will say again & in agreement w you guys that, regardless, I think that BW is indeed also a refreshing player w a nice pocket. Having said that...

Coleslaw: "Easy, tiger!" [img]wink.gif[/img] [Dazz-o] ...also see mja:

OK, new rule....decaf only after 6 pm

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">lol [img]tongue.gif[/img] J/K

I've been trying this new "rule" lately, too, [after seeing all the carnage that ensues]... [img]wink.gif[/img]

Perhaps it would be cool if BW gave online [lessons like Virg, etc]....does he?

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ January 25, 2005 02:21 PM: Message edited by: fuseU1 ]</font>

[CLWarunki]

Originally posted by jonthibault:
[QB]His technique is ghastly--his double strokes on his video are sloppy, at best. And his drums, in my opinion, sound like a big bag of ass.
QB]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Huuuaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa! LOL

Man, that was hilarious! Well said. I somewhat agree with you on the above points and I will sum up my views on Billy by stating this:

I respect him as an artist, though he often treads a very fine line. I often can not make up my mind as to if he is a genius or a flake... but I do like his "refreshing" approach and artistic merit. I enjoyed his DVD, and think I got all out of it that I could - in one sitting.